A lot of the bitter anti-TLJ people I know of don't like Kylo at all because he's too emotional (read: "feminine") and still visibly torn between the Dark and the Light, instead of being Vader Mark 2
//face in hands
Of course, they wanted Anakin Junior or something. And everyone in the ENTIRE movie is like, "You are not your grandfather! You are not Vader! TAKE OFF THE STUPID MASK" -- Driver really does play Ren as very vulnerable and easily wounded, too. He has no resilience, he's written himself off a long time ago, and after everyone from his parents to his mentor/uncle to the Snokester telling him how BAD he is, I wasn't at all surprised his major motivation was to burn everything completely to the ground. Why save any of it if he thinks he's unsavable himself?
they wanted to see him completely engulfed by the Dark and taking his place at Snoke's side as the Big Scary Bad of the trilogy.
So, yeah, like Vader and Palpatine. (The amount of EXTREME RAGE I have seen over Snoke's lack of backstory is just kinda hilarious. I'm like, dudes, I was THERE, when dinos walked the earth and we saw the OT in theatres! The Emperor didn't have a name! He just SHOWED UP. We rolled with it.)
(The whole "but he's not VADER" thing is also very funny to me because, as an Old who was There, I remember people violently rejecting that Vader was Luke's father. He was lying! It was a trick! His dad was Ben somehow! I think Lucas had to actually come out and say "No, it's true," and then people were even more pissed. How could LUKE, the pure-hearted farmboy Galahad in white, have anything to do with Vader.)
Renperor (which he... technically is, but I give it about five minutes before Hux double-crosses him and takes over. Like, the minute Kylo decides to take a nap).
RENPEROR....I gotta admit, the constant Odd Couple-with-Chokehold bickering between Hux and Ren was amazing. I constantly picture them fleeing on like this little banged-up Imperial freighter nearly killing each other two dozen times a day. And yeah, anyone who turns their back on Hux is a moron.
(Also to Luke's Force Ghost haunting the crap out of him, because he pretty much promised he would.)
LOL, YES, and maybe Yoda can join in too. "Failure you are, like your young Uncle here, heh heh."
Rian Johnson says that Ben and Rey are "like two halves of our protagonist", and I don't think he was only referring to TLJ when he said it.
Yeah, and he made that REALLY evident with Rey's mirror sequence, and then how Rey and Kylo are basically each other's mirrors in the Force Time bits. (I'm sad he's not going to be doing the last film. I loved TFA but JJA is canonically not good at sticking landings.)
And my husband thought Luke's characterization in TLJ was very much in line with the original trilogy too. It was the first thing he brought up when we talked about it on the way home.
I really think it is -- I didn't think he was mean or even horribly cynical at all, Hamill does an amazing job of acting when Rey first holds out that lightsabre to him. He's depressed -- he thought everything he was, his whole identity, is not just a failure but a terrible mistake, he thinks Ren is his fault, he's cut himself off from the Force, he's gone into hiding back where it all started in the hopes it'll all end with him. A lot of people seemed to be saying that Just Wasn't Luke, like Luke couldn't be a hero, or even truly himself, if he was depressed. (Which, as someone with depression, I found....well, depressing.)
(omg sorry for taking over your post with TLJ talk, Pamela)
no subject
//face in hands
Of course, they wanted Anakin Junior or something. And everyone in the ENTIRE movie is like, "You are not your grandfather! You are not Vader! TAKE OFF THE STUPID MASK" -- Driver really does play Ren as very vulnerable and easily wounded, too. He has no resilience, he's written himself off a long time ago, and after everyone from his parents to his mentor/uncle to the Snokester telling him how BAD he is, I wasn't at all surprised his major motivation was to burn everything completely to the ground. Why save any of it if he thinks he's unsavable himself?
they wanted to see him completely engulfed by the Dark and taking his place at Snoke's side as the Big Scary Bad of the trilogy.
So, yeah, like Vader and Palpatine. (The amount of EXTREME RAGE I have seen over Snoke's lack of backstory is just kinda hilarious. I'm like, dudes, I was THERE, when dinos walked the earth and we saw the OT in theatres! The Emperor didn't have a name! He just SHOWED UP. We rolled with it.)
(The whole "but he's not VADER" thing is also very funny to me because, as an Old who was There, I remember people violently rejecting that Vader was Luke's father. He was lying! It was a trick! His dad was Ben somehow! I think Lucas had to actually come out and say "No, it's true," and then people were even more pissed. How could LUKE, the pure-hearted farmboy Galahad in white, have anything to do with Vader.)
Renperor (which he... technically is, but I give it about five minutes before Hux double-crosses him and takes over. Like, the minute Kylo decides to take a nap).
RENPEROR....I gotta admit, the constant Odd Couple-with-Chokehold bickering between Hux and Ren was amazing. I constantly picture them fleeing on like this little banged-up Imperial freighter nearly killing each other two dozen times a day. And yeah, anyone who turns their back on Hux is a moron.
(Also to Luke's Force Ghost haunting the crap out of him, because he pretty much promised he would.)
LOL, YES, and maybe Yoda can join in too. "Failure you are, like your young Uncle here, heh heh."
Rian Johnson says that Ben and Rey are "like two halves of our protagonist", and I don't think he was only referring to TLJ when he said it.
Yeah, and he made that REALLY evident with Rey's mirror sequence, and then how Rey and Kylo are basically each other's mirrors in the Force Time bits. (I'm sad he's not going to be doing the last film. I loved TFA but JJA is canonically not good at sticking landings.)
And my husband thought Luke's characterization in TLJ was very much in line with the original trilogy too. It was the first thing he brought up when we talked about it on the way home.
I really think it is -- I didn't think he was mean or even horribly cynical at all, Hamill does an amazing job of acting when Rey first holds out that lightsabre to him. He's depressed -- he thought everything he was, his whole identity, is not just a failure but a terrible mistake, he thinks Ren is his fault, he's cut himself off from the Force, he's gone into hiding back where it all started in the hopes it'll all end with him. A lot of people seemed to be saying that Just Wasn't Luke, like Luke couldn't be a hero, or even truly himself, if he was depressed. (Which, as someone with depression, I found....well, depressing.)
(omg sorry for taking over your post with TLJ talk, Pamela)