pameladean: chalk-fronted corporal dragonfly (Libellula julia)
[personal profile] pameladean
The copy-edit of the Liavek collection, which Pat and I decided (with the agreement of the publisher) to call Points of Departure, arrived a couple of weeks ago. Sunday evening I emailed my version of the file to Pat, who had agreed to merge the two and make sure that my unfamiliarity with Microsoft Word and, indeed, with any kind of electronic editing and copy-editing arrangement whatsoever, had not created any horrors that needed fixing.

There were some editorial remarks and changes as well, but very minor ones, the editor having thought that we had done a good job on the stories the first time around and knew how we wanted them to be.

I had forgotten the stages of dealing with a copy-edit, which, in my case, go approximately, NOOOOOOO, Are You Kidding Me, I Cannot Write For Toffee Not If It Was Ever So, Okay I Can Fix That If You Insist, Bored Now, Thank Goodness Somebody Noticed That, The Rest of This is Nonsense and I Will Not Do It, Really Bored Now, Really Why Did I Think I Could Write, Oh All RIGHT, This Is Very Annoying But You Have A Point, and I Am So Done Now.

I believe that copy-editors cannot catch everything that is actually wrong without also pointing out a certain percentage of things that are not wrong at all, and the writer just has to deal with it; but I had almost forgotten this, because it's been so long since I had anything published.

It was interesting to me that all the changes I balked at came down to either voice or viewpoint. The first and last of my Liavek stories are in the first person, and I was really not at all willing to change much of anything. The middle three stories and my sections of the new collaborative story are in third person, but there is in each one a particular viewpoint that dictates word choice and style generally. I was not altogether aware of this when I wrote them, but when I tried to make changes that on the surface seemed perfectly reasonable, it always came down to viewpoint.

On the whole I feel that all of the stories have held up remarkably well, and actually found myself becoming weepy both over the end of my last one, "A Necessary End," and Pat's last one, "The Levar's Night Out."

I am so pleased that this collection will be available as an e-book. I think the release date is in May, but I'll keep you apprised as things get closer.

Pamela

Date: 2015-02-03 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ritaxis.livejournal.com
I have certainly found that there's a lot of editorial madness going around with copyeditors attempting to change mountains of things that aren't incorrect, down to frequently changing them into things that are either incorrect themselves or things that are not incorrect but inappropriate. One oddity was an editor who, whenever there were multiple accepted usages, always changed mine, and al;ways changed it from the usage that appears first in the dictionary to one that appears second or third. And I just dealt with one who thought that the preliminary scenes of a story, which told of events twenty-five or so years before the rest, should therefore all be in past perfect. Also that the story must be from the point of view of the protagonist, and so therefore everything my omniscient narrator said that the protagonist didn't know had to be excised. And so on.

But mostly it's things like changing "got a break" to "caught a break." Both are correct: why change it?

Date: 2015-02-03 10:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maiac.livejournal.com
I am very much looking forward to the Liavek e-book!

When I copyedit, I have to keep reminding myself, "Just because that's not how you'd put it doesn't mean it's wrong." I always prefer editing the file (vs. on printed pages), because when I catch myself overediting I can go back and reverse the changes.

"Nothing, not love, not greed, not passion or hatred, is stronger than a writer's need to change another writer's copy."
- Arthur Evans

Date: 2015-02-03 10:25 pm (UTC)
sovay: (Rotwang)
From: [personal profile] sovay
I am so pleased that this collection will be available as an e-book. I think the release date is in May, but I'll keep you apprised as things get closer.

Will it be available as a non-e-book as well? I was just re-reading the four Liavek anthologies I own (I'm missing Spells of Binding; I believe I got it out of a library in college) and I have an increasingly antiquated preference for books I can carry around without an electronic interface.

Date: 2015-02-04 12:32 am (UTC)
sovay: (Sovay: David Owen)
From: [personal profile] sovay
Perhaps if it does well as an e-book something might happen.

Fingers very much crossed. In the meantime: mazel tov! Book!

Date: 2015-02-04 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skylarker.livejournal.com
I'll look forward to its release, now that I've got a day job and can actually buy books again!

Date: 2015-02-05 04:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thistleingrey.livejournal.com
+1 preference for print, but I'll be glad to read it in whichever form--I'm really looking forward to it.

Date: 2015-02-03 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com
I LOVE your Liavek stories.

Date: 2015-02-03 11:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clindau.livejournal.com
Looking forward to May!

Date: 2015-02-03 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inlaterdays.livejournal.com
Really looking forward to reading this!

Date: 2015-02-04 02:56 am (UTC)
lcohen: (obama button)
From: [personal profile] lcohen
most of my copy-editing has been non-fiction--just a very little fiction. it's almost like two different skills. still, hurray for copy editing--so many books i read seem to have skipped that step and just gone for spell check--i find error after error.

and hurray--i am unfamiliar with your liavek books but i look forward to meeting them!

Date: 2015-02-04 03:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alecaustin.livejournal.com
Very much looking forward to it, even though I am not much for ebooks generally.

Date: 2015-02-04 07:19 am (UTC)
rosefox: The Publishers Weekly logo. (publishers weekly)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
Please let your publisher know that they can submit it for review consideration here:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/galleytracker

I don't recall ever getting a book from them before, so I figured I'd mention.

Congratulations on the book! :)
Edited Date: 2015-02-04 07:19 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-02-04 12:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com
I think first person is a special case of dialogue. Copyeditors shouldn't change things in dialogue that look "wrong" because they are speech, idiolect, or personal idiosyncrasies. And the same goes for first.

My process tends to be LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, How could you even think that? Oh thank goodness you caught that one!

It's very hard not to find it adversarial.

Date: 2015-02-06 06:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ethelmay.livejournal.com
The trouble is that sometimes they look wrong because they ARE wrong, and they ALSO look like plausible dialect. An example I recently ran across, in one of my mother's books: "Are you through your breakfast already, dear?" Yes, it's possible that's an idiom I'm not familiar with (or haven't ever noticed in speech). It's also possible the author (or the typesetter) simply left out a "with" after "through." (In this case the author's dead, so I can't ask her.)

I did an editing certificate program some years back, and we spent a lot of time on when to query and how to phrase queries appropriately. It's not easy, even for nonfiction.

Date: 2015-02-04 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] apostle-of-eris.livejournal.com
Q: How many writers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Do we have to change it?!
Q: How many editors does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: The last time this question was asked, it was about writers. Are you sure this is correct? It seems inconsistent.

Date: 2015-02-05 07:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eub.livejournal.com
*laugh*

Date: 2015-02-04 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pgranzeau.livejournal.com
"I believe that copy-editors cannot catch everything that is actually wrong without also pointing out a certain percentage of things that are not wrong at all"

That's where you get a big red stamp that says "STET".

Date: 2015-02-06 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ethelmay.livejournal.com
I have a set of electronic "stamps" for marking up PDFs with standard proofreading marks. Dunno if it can be done in Word.

Date: 2015-02-04 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
Looking forward to it! I loved Liavek.

Date: 2015-02-05 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
Oh, damn. But at least we'll have these! And I am very careful with my old paperbacks.

Date: 2015-02-04 10:06 pm (UTC)
thinkum: (woot!)
From: [personal profile] thinkum
Yay for being done! And cheers for it being a book! :-)

Date: 2015-02-07 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
I think you're so right, and I speak from both sides of the equation.

Thinking of all the possible replies you listed, the one that I'm most grateful to copyeditors for eliciting in me is "Oh All RIGHT, This Is Very Annoying But You Have A Point." I can think of several of those.

Date: 2015-02-17 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cat-sanctuary.livejournal.com
I hope it will also be available as a real book so I can read it. (A forced update on this computer is making it slower than ever, and it was slow enough before...I will never, never, never spend any money on anything electronic that interacts with companies that self-sabotage the way Windows just did. For putting up with this kind of annoyance Windows can jolly well pay me!)

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